Big Firm Assoc

Musings, rants, recipes, repressed Baylor Law School memories, haiku, and drivel from a professor at the University of St. Thomas law school in Minneapolis.

Thursday, September 28, 2006

The Suits

Surveys of attorney job satisfaction always seem to find that attorneys vary quite a bit in how much they like their jobs. Typically, it breaks down something like this:

Happiest: Legal academics
Pretty happy: Government attorneys, prosecutors, criminal defense attorneys
Least happy: Large firm attorneys

Since graduating from law school in the 1880's, I have been in each of these categories, and find the job satisfaction rankings to be absolutely correct, both personally and for my peers. One good informal measure of job satisfaction is escape fantasies, and I have found few professors who dream of doing something else, but big firm attorneys very often are daydreaming about doing something else.

The odd thing is that our best students overwhelmingly want the least satisfying jobs. In large part, it is the money-- they have debts to pay off. But even controlling for debt and grades, my students with no debt (due to scholarships or parental largesse) and top grades usually go off to large law firms. Rarely do they express an interest in teaching, and the top students also seem generally disinclined to criminal law.

So, why do so many of the best students choose to go off to the worst jobs (in terms of happiness)? In part, it is because we value worth in terms of money, and those jobs pay the most. But also it is because those are the easiest jobs to get-- the employers come to school and hire you! For jobs in the other categories, students have to do the hard work of making the connections with legal employers through their own initiative.

But, maybe... being happy with your life is more important than money, and is worth doing a little work for?

# posted by Mark Osler @ 7:54 AM

Comments:

Did you notice that the descending order tracks the money, but the ascending order tracks the power? So does that mean that while money doesn't buy happiness, power does?

# posted by llj : 9:06 AM

Law professors have power?????

# posted by Anonymous : 9:13 AM

6:13: Yes, law professors have more status and influence (thus, power) than your garden variety lawyer at a law firm.

Regarding the career choice, there is almost an expectation among students that the ones with the best grades will either do a prestigious clerkship or jump straight into BigFirm law. There is a perception that the best paid job is the best choice.

Having been out a few years and having practiced BigFirm law, I am very happy to have left it, even though I now make less $$.

# posted by Anonymous : 9:23 AM

One has to find creative outlets and big firms often stifle the search for such outlets. The trick is to find a good field of law and/or a good firm that will allow you to find interesting work, including bar/professional association work.

# posted by iplawguy : 9:35 AM

llj--

I think what tracks the order of happiness isn't so much power but discretion within your work. The law firm associate (the least satisfied of all) has the least discretion, while law profs have the most. Having done all three, (big firm assoc., prosecutor, prof.) I do know that for me that element of controlling what I do makes a huge difference in my happiness.

# posted by Mark Osler : 9:39 AM

where do judges fit in?

# posted by taco : 9:48 AM

Does the fact that I only have an interest in criminal law mean I am not one of your "best" students?

# posted by Anonymous : 10:39 AM

7:39: Yes. That is of course what I meant.

# posted by Mark Osler : 10:50 AM

That is exactly what I thought.

# posted by Anonymous : 10:53 AM

Wow. This one hits a nerve with me, but then I am of course bitter.

I believe there is a factor not accounted for so far - the fact that many people who are drawn to law school are money-hungry little drones programmed by their parents to want to earn Big Bucks at Big Law Firm, LLC.

I mean, law school is a huge commitment, especially at Baylor. You pretty much need something to motivate you through the three-year gauntlet. I don't believe most students are operating in a vacuum until some potential career dawns on them in the middle of the program. I know people do change their minds a lot but I suspect in many cases, potential students already have something in mind before they even take the LSAT. In some cases, students have ideals or principles to guide us. Others want money or prestige more than anything else.

As someone who has chosen the second track as a prosecutor ("Only jail time, no probation"), I was motivated more by ideals than by money. But then, there IS the undeniable fact that running up that much debt, that fast, makes one wish for greater income after graduation - even if greed wasn't a primary motivator.

# posted by d-man : 11:27 AM

I am lawyer in a big firm who is happy with my practice and enjoy my career. Fortunately, the field of law I landed in is constantly changing, interesting and often amusing.

Part of the reason why is that I volunteer my time for jobs that are not part of my "at work" responsibilities. One of the things I do is serve as a mentor/sounding board for students at my Undergrad Alma Mater who are considering law school. I also talk to law students considering their options.

My advice to aspiring lawyers is to "go do something else for a while" and/or "Once you put on a business suit, its hard to take it off." I worked for five years before law school and was amazed by the feeding frenzy for jobs that occurred while I was in law school. Even those students who were not sure they wanted to be with big firms decided they had to chase such jobs because everyone else was too! It was peer pressure to conform to the community standard like I'd never seen.

Trust me, there are jobs out there. Not everyone has to have 3 offers first semester third year to be a "good person." Or even a good lawyer. And its OK to switch careers along the way. Its easier, however, when you're younger and have fewer commitments to family, mortgage, car loan, etc.

# posted by iplawguy : 12:08 PM

I have a friend who started his law career at White & Case (or is it Case & White? sorry, I'm not a lawyer) in New York. One of his jobs had something to do with arranging contracts for airplane engines which, apparently, get traded separately from the planes themselves.

Not long after he started, he was already looking wistfully at the garbage men on the New York streets, because at least they got to work outside. He only lasted fourteen months at that job, despite the money. He has since gone on to much more exotic legal realms, like writing the constitutions of former Soviet republics and teaching land law and real estate. He's definitely happier.

# posted by swissgirl : 3:37 PM

Ever think that maybe there is more social pressure to join a law firm? Granted, it's still about money, but I know a couple of people who could have cared less about the money, but they joined the big law firms because that's what everyone expects when you get out of law school. I think there is more social pressure than we realize. Not just money.

Take my word for it, if you have even the slightest interest in crimninal law, go be a Prosecutor. You won't regret it

# posted by Anonymous : 5:19 PM

or a criminal defense attorney.

# posted by Anonymous : 5:41 PM

Part of the social pressure to go to big firms is what I described-- it is easy and alluring. When I was in law school, we even got a week off in October that was designated "fly-back week" for the purpose of flying around visiting firms. Who wouldn't want to do that?

# posted by Mark Osler : 7:40 PM

Osler, I

# posted by Anonymous : 8:50 PM

The social pressure is high, it's easy, there is a lot of money involved. What pulls me along strongly to a Big-medium sized firm is the need to show "something" for the time spent in three years of law school. "Something" is in quotations, because that balance between job satisfaction and the bottom line is hard to figure out on an individual basis. "Maybe I'll be happy at the large firms?" "will I love it that much?" "Is it all about the money?" "Can I always drop things and quit?" These are all questions, that in my humble opinion, need to be answered individually. I don't have the experience or time to answer them now. And I don't trust anyone else's experience when it comes to what makes me happy. So, money and prestige becomes the default setting, and I'll work my way into something perfect later on. Someday, I just might have my piece of incite on what the perfect balance is. Then, another law student can faithfully ignore it. So the cycle continues...

Love,
Matt

# posted by Anonymous : 9:00 PM

# posted by Anonymous : 9:01 PM

Sorry that was me above, I hit publish too early.

It is more than paying off debt that is attractive: it's the ability to have a spouse stay home with the children, sending the kids to private school, having nice cars, buying a house, going on fun vacations, etc. The average law students entering age is 25 and then when we finish around age 28/29 we are ready to start living a nice life style. I do not blame people for wanting nice things and a big firm job can provide that.

On that note: I will most likely be working for the federal gov't post law school earning $45,000 – the same salary as first year teachers in Dallas…

# posted by Anonymous : 9:08 PM

If you are talking about a fed clerkship it's like $52K. I myself enjoy taking the extra 7K out of the bank in quarters and swimming around in it like Scrooge McDuck

# posted by GED3 : 11:32 PM

Give me big law anyday. I am already bitter and unhappy at Baylor - might as well get paid for it. It will be like going through PC for 30 years but with a legal staff to take my frustrations out on.

# posted by Anonymous : 12:26 AM

"Legal staff to take it out on"? I'm a partner at a big firm and believe me, the road to success does not involve beating up your staff... if you have one. The days of partners lording over a team of associates, paralegals and staff and then leaving at 5 while they work all night are LONG gone. Most secretaries work for 2-4 attorneys these days. Partners are expected to bill just as many hours as associates. The TV show law firms do NOT reflect reality.

# posted by iplawguy : 9:03 AM

IPLawguy-

I met a woman who does IP law up in Dallas, and she said that the reason she loved it is because it's the happy side of the firm. She equated it to the labor and delivery ward of a hospital. The image stuck with me.

# posted by llj : 1:44 PM

llj,

IP Law is fun. I like to call the trademark side, which I specialize in, "shopping law." Its fun to go places and see brands I've helped protect, especially overseas.

Never heard the labor/delivery analogy, but why not. We are involved with a lot of creative people doing interesting things. I must say, however, that some of the children can be quite unattractive!

And when children fight, they can be quite unreasonable. But that's how we make money....

# posted by iplawguy : 5:21 PM